Transcript: Episode Three - Scottish Mum
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:15:15
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Hello and welcome to the Medical Genetics and Genomics podcast from the University of Glasgow.
00:00:15:17 - 00:00:50:00
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
My name is Dr Gary Kerr, and I am an alumni of the MSc Medical Genetics Program. And I'm joined today by Betty O'Hare, who until her retirement was a medical genetics facilitator on the University of Glasgow's MSc in Medical Genetics. For many, Betty is the heart of the department, both as a scientist and as an educator. She joined in 1967 as a technician, was there for the official opening of the Duncan Guthrie Institute of Medical Genetics at the Yorkhill site in 1981.
00:00:50:02 - 00:01:17:06
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
In 2012, the Department relocated to the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital. And, now known as the West of Scotland Centre for Genomic Medicine. The MSc course was set up in 1984, and shortly after this Betty joined. Many on the course lovingly referred to her as their “Scottish mum” or their “Scottish mammy”. Betty retired in 2015. And I'm delighted that the Betty is joining us today.
00:01:17:08 - 00:01:19:11
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Betty, thank you for joining us.
00:01:19:13 - 00:01:21:01
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
Thank you for asking me.
00:01:21:03 - 00:01:26:03
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Can you tell us a little bit about how you got into medical genetics and science in general?
00:01:26:07 - 00:01:55:17
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I left school on Friday and started in the blood transfusion department in Glasgow Royal Infirmary on the Monday. And it was while working in Glasgow Royal Infirmary, that I attended night school for three years and studied pathology, bacteriology, biochemistry, physiology, haematology and blood transfusion. I then sat what was called my intermediate exam, which if I passed, meant that I would be considered capable of working on a routine bench for all of these subjects.
00:01:55:19 - 00:02:20:11
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I was fortunate enough to actually have a couple of months in each of the departments where I did learn the routine work. I studied for two years for the final technician exams, which, in my case was blood transfusion and haematology. And then passing that I became a state registered technician and was officially an associate of the Institute of Medical Laboratory Sciences.
00:02:20:13 - 00:02:40:00
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
My next post was in the blood transfusion service at Law hospital near Carluke. I had been invited to apply for a position there by my night school lecturers, who were the chief one and chief two out at Law.
00:02:34:00 - 00:02:50:14
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I was delighted when I was put onto the “Special Investigation Bench”, preparing anti-sera of groups out with the A/B/O/Rhesus system for various labs in the area, as at that time it was not possible to purchase these antibodies from commercial companies.
00:02:50:16 - 00:03:07:05
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Thanks, Betty. That's a great introduction to your background in blood transfusion and haematology, where, of course, you were a state registered scientist. Betty, I wonder if you can tell us why you chose to retrain in DNA analysis?
00:03:07:07 - 00:03:36:18
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
In April 1967, I was offered a post Medical Genetics, and my job was to check for illegitimacies within families that were being studied to see if certain conditions travelled on certain chromosomes. And we also used the fact that if the only people in the family who had the condition were also the only people who had a particular blood group, then it was an indication that they travelled together.
00:03:36:20 - 00:04:17:12
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
But it was decided that it would be better if we could get it with DNA analysis, because DNA analysis could go in much deeper. So, it was decided that I should learn the techniques and carry on with chromosome mapping, which was basically the same. I did blood grouping to determine if there were any illegitimacies, and then we went on and did the various probes used, with the chromosomes, and then they checked whether the chromosomes were the same, you know, had the same mutation or not a mutation. But I still had to do the illegitimacies.
00:04:17:17 - 00:04:40:06
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
That seemed to be a very important part, well that was a very important part of it. Professor Ferguson Smith I decided that I should learn this DNA work, and he'd given me a project with samples from mothers and sons affected with DMD. It was while I was working on that project, it was noticed that visitors to the department would ask me for help.
00:04:40:08 - 00:04:58:19
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
As apparently, I was approachable. And so, I worked on it and finally found myself being quite happy with DNA. I'd been a bit nervous before I started because it was so different. I'd never run a gel in my life. But it was a lot easier than the thought it would be. So that's what I was doing.
00:04:58:21 - 00:05:08:02
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Great. Thank you, Betty. And of course, you joined the MSc in Medical genetics in the early years. Why did you join the MSc course?
00:05:08:04 - 00:05:32:02
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
Well, Dr George Lanyon, who was the head of the course at the time. And because, I've been working, in the lab, he knew what was happening in the lab, and people approaching me. He suggested that I started to work with MSc students, and he gave me three to work with. I think there were only 20 odd that year, but he gave me three students to work with.
00:05:32:08 - 00:05:48:02
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
Now, I have quite a strong Scottish accent, but apparently, they understood me. So that's what I did. My choice of students were people whose English wasn't good, but I didn't mind that at all.
00:05:48:04 - 00:05:59:07
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Betty, many alumni remember you as their facilitator and as their mentor on the program. Can you tell us a little bit about the ups and downs of being a facilitator?
00:05:59:09 - 00:06:22:14
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
Well, I started off as being a mentor first before the PBL’s - I got involved in the problem-based learning sessions when I became a facilitator. Sometimes, we had over 40 students. So, there was always a queue outside my office door. Sometimes it took a long time to get through my other work because I was being mum.
00:06:22:16 - 00:06:54:07
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
It was decided we would split them into groups and give everybody, you know, a group of 6 to 9 people would have a mentor. This was useful for them because you picture you being away from home, totally different country, different customs, different money, different rules and regulations. So, not all of them, but quite a few needed somebody to talk to, and take them through these sorts of problems.
00:06:54:09 - 00:07:16:19
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
And I always felt that if my family were abroad, I would want somebody who would be available to talk to them and help them. So, if I wanted that for my family, then I should be doing that for other people's families. And it seemed to work. Another thing about the mentors, say there was a student who felt they preferred a different mentor.
00:07:16:21 - 00:07:32:02
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
They could go and get them, but there was no ill feeling for people. And then if a mentor had a problem and found it difficult to deal with, they could always go to another mentor themselves and discuss the problem.
00:07:32:04 - 00:07:49:04
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Wonderful. So, you had the mentoring role, and indeed, I'm sure I myself was one of those people queuing up outside the office for a little bit of mentoring. I remember going into your office one day, you made me a nice cup of tea, offered me a biscuit, which was lovely, but you were more than a mentor, so you were also a facilitator as well.
00:07:49:09 - 00:07:53:14
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Can you tell me a little bit more about the facilitator role that you had?
00:07:53:16 - 00:08:41:09
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I really enjoyed being a facilitator. I felt that that was a way of seeing the students away from the other educators in the course, and perhaps the real character came out. Now, some of the students were so helpful and so kind and good with other students because each of them was learning something new. But there was occasionally where somebody came out and was quite rude, very rude actually. And these were normally the people who weren’t just as bright and couldn't seem to accept that these other people were perhaps criticizing or suggesting that this one was wrong.
00:08:41:11 - 00:09:07:11
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
But I found that was quite stimulating for me. But I also learned an awful lot because as they did their individual objectives, I was learning about them as well. It made me feel closer to quite a lot of people in the group. And I just, I felt - you had to help in some. But to be very careful not to say too much, not to give them the ideas.
00:09:07:14 - 00:09:33:21
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
They had to come up with the ideas, you could maybe hint a little but couldn't do much. I think having a facilitator who listened, who looked after the reports they sent in. I would go through these reports, and I obviously wouldn’t change anything, but I would maybe draw a line under a sentence and put a question mark after it, which would suggest to them, they maybe should rethink that.
00:09:33:23 - 00:10:04:00
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
And to me that was fair. I thought that was fair. And we also had sessions where each individual in the PBL group would give a talk on their particular subject to the course - that was very good, and some people found it difficult. One girl in particular felt she couldn't speak in public, and she cried. So, I got her aside and we did it several times just to me.
00:10:04:02 - 00:10:28:03
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
And then when she was doing it to get marked with Douglas, Maria, etc., she stared at me. I told her, if you come to a part and you're not 100% sure, look at a person in your group that you're confident does know and keep looking at them. If not, look at me because I’ll just say yes anyway.
00:10:28:05 - 00:10:55:03
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
So that's what she did. And she didn't cry once. And at the graduation service, her mother came up to me and said, do you know that she's never been able to do anything like that? She’s a clever girl, she’s a nice girl, she had no confidence in speaking. And that that was a very satisfying part of being a facilitator, seeing people come out of themselves and be what they could be. It was good, I liked it.
00:10:55:05 - 00:11:24:09
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I was accused of showing favouritism because I asked a person to sit down and be quiet and let the other person speak and she reported me and said I was showing favouritism. And so, it was arranged for all the other people in the PBL group to be questioned. I wasn't there of course when they were being questioned and the case against me was thrown out.
00:11:24:11 - 00:11:26:18
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I wasn't showing favouritism.
00:11:26:20 - 00:12:00:15
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Thank you, Betty. And yeah, I think it really just shows the power that students have. That's certainly how I remember, you know, that first story that you were talking about the safe space that yourself and the other facilitators and teaching stuff made on the MSc in Medical Genetics program, where students were encouraged to flourish in the program and to step outside the comfort zone and develop themselves personally. Betty, in addition to being a facilitator, you taught DNA techniques to students. And indeed, you had a catchphrase for when students were making mistakes.
00:12:00:17 - 00:12:18:21
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Now, I don't know if you knew that you had this catchphrase, but you would, often be found saying in the lab, “You've done it your way. Now, you're doing it my way”. And I think it was something that we all loved about you. You gave us the chance to kind of make a mistake and then showed this how it was actually done.
00:12:18:23 - 00:12:24:13
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
So, Betty, did you enjoy training these early career scientists and students in the lab?
00:12:24:15 - 00:12:50:24
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I loved it. I really enjoyed it. It was great satisfaction to see a person who had never touched a Gilson pipette before, who could set up the experiments, load a gel, run it and get a good result. But if we didn't get the good result would say to me, could I do that again? Or later on in the course, I would see a perfect gel being run.
00:12:51:01 - 00:13:18:03
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
And I would think that's a great feeling of satisfaction to know that you've helped somebody like that. And I thoroughly enjoyed that, thoroughly enjoyed my work showing the students. I did have problems, I had a student who came into to the lab while I was in the middle of another group, and he actually shouted:
00:13:18:03 - 00:13:40:18
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
‘What time is the lab tomorrow?” and I said, “Well what time does it say on the timetable?” And he said, “it says 11:00.” And I said, “Well if it said 11:00, it’s 11:00.” and I said, “why are you asking?” And he said, “Because sometimes you change it.” I said, “I changed it once - to allow me to go to my granddaughter's Christmas party”.
00:13:40:20 - 00:14:03:16
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I said once, and Linda took it over. So, he went away. And the next morning at 10:00, when the lab actually started, he wasn't there, and he came in 11:00 and he said to me, “You told me it was 11:00.”. I mean, he’s shouting at me in front of all these people. And I said, “No, you told me it was at 11:00.”
00:14:03:18 - 00:14:33:22
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
“I don't even have a partner now.” I said, “oh, yes you do. I will be your partner.” We did the DNA extraction, and he couldn't understand why I got more concentrated DNA than him – I said “Experience! That’s what it is”. I mean so rude, shouting and the other students were looking at him, as if to say, you’re not being very nice here - because most of the students were lovely. This gives you an understanding of things, that facilitators put up with
00:14:33:24 - 00:15:00:13
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Lovely. You've certainly got bags of patience, Betty. Patience in abundance, might I add. Betty, the master's in Medical Genetics, from what I remember, was certainly very international; Were there any challenges that you found in having a range of cultures and backgrounds in the classroom? Did international students have any different needs from the home students? And how did you approach this?
00:15:00:15 - 00:15:27:04
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
Well, I do feel that the overseas students did need or some of them did need more help and understanding than home students. So many different things to deal with country, money, university, different customs and although allowances can sometimes be made, they must also take on board the understanding and making allowances is a two-way street.
00:15:27:06 - 00:15:49:15
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I don't think that meant we felt any less for our home students, because I really liked all my home – well – there was only two I didn’t like - but the rest of the people I really liked. And I do feel that the rules on plagiarism are not always made clear to the overseas students because some students, for example, from India, they were encouraged to write word for word what it said the textbook.
00:15:49:17 - 00:16:09:17
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
Of course that's plagiarism, but they had to learn it. At one point it was just Maria that was checking for plagiarism, and she could spot it a mile away. I mean, Maria has always been able to do that, but then put some computer program sorted out. They could tell, you know, when it came up with red lines and everything like that.
00:16:09:19 - 00:16:34:18
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
But I think they really need to know a wee bit more about that. Also, and this isn't just in the MSc course, there are some lecturers who either have a strong accent or speak very quickly, and the student can't understand them because you've got to remember we have students from China, India, we’ve had Russia, all over the world.
00:16:34:23 - 00:17:03:23
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
And they're expected to tune into each other's language. The lecturers don't always speak clearly enough or slowly enough. And I’ve said that a student should always approach a mentor or go to a lecturer and ask them politely, and I meant politely, if they could help by a talking a bit more slowly. I did have one student who said to me, “Would it be all right if I went up and told him he was boring?”
00:17:03:24 - 00:17:26:13
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I said, “No, I don't think so!”. He was a nice guy. He didn't think it was anything, but he was the one when we first started and he said, mam, to me. And I said, “oh no, I'm Betty”. And he said, “I couldn't possibly call you Betty, you're too old.”
00:17:26:15 - 00:17:38:21
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
And my reply to that was “Well, you’ve failed!”. We became very good friends, and I heard from him for years. You know, I thought it was funny, I thought at the time – “you’re too old!” What would he say to me now?
00:17:38:23 - 00:17:42:00
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
He sounds like a charmer!
00:17:42:00 - 00:17:44:14
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
He was, he was.
00:17:44:23 - 00:18:07:11
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Betty, I remember, you know, back in my day, we went on a wonderful class trip to Culzean Castle. And I also really remember, with fond memories, the international potluck events that we would have up at the Duncan Guthrie Institute. Can you tell us what it was like as a staff member to organize these more social, events for the students?
00:18:07:13 - 00:18:33:01
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
Well, the trip to Culzean was the first one I organized, and Linda helped, Linda was always there, she was always the helper. We couldn't get permission from the university to use whatever form it was, to use the buses cheap or the entry to Culzean Castle too. We took them there; we'd never done it before. We had them running races.
00:18:33:03 - 00:18:56:04
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
We had tug of wars, we had lots of silly things going on, and it must have looked really strange because we had people - well the women had on their national dress, the type of dresses they wore - and a young teenager came up to me from Scotland and he said, “Excuse me, could you tell me where these people are from?”
00:18:56:06 - 00:19:17:00
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
And I said, “oh, we are a course in Glasgow University”. And he looked at me as if to say, “You are kidding me”, because we were all screaming and shouting for each other. He must have thought we were mad. There was one occasion when Linda decided that she was going to win, and the prize was a sequined cowgirl hat.
00:19:17:03 - 00:19:37:15
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
You know, you can imagine we bought really expensive things. She was so determined she was going to win it she fell right on the line and tore something in her leg and had to be taken to hospital. She was only off work a couple of days and then she got back to work. But we joked about this for a long time. There was also a three-legged race, and I had asked Anne Theriault:
00:19:37:17 - 00:20:05:14
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
“Why couldn't we do a three-legged race together?” We would tie our good legs together and use our sticks for the other side. Needless to say, we didn’t win. But it was a bit of fun. And if you had seen how they get on the bus and then how they get off the bus they were different people; they were so relaxed with happy smiles. And one occasion on a bus going down, there was a boy who had never seen the sea.
00:20:05:16 - 00:20:27:22
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
He was from middle of India, and he’d only seen it from an aeroplane, and he was up and running up and down the bus saying, “I can see the sea, I can see the sea!”. And then we had another boy, he was from Nigeria. I have problems with the skin on my legs and I used to go in and the sea was good for them. And he shouted at me:
00:20:27:24 - 00:20:48:13
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
“Betty, Betty, How's the water?” I said, “oh, it's wonderful!” because it was freezing and that's what was good for my legs and he ran in and I thought “He’s going to die” [Betty Laughing] And other people wouldn't come out the water, these people who didn't have the opportunity and they loved it. I took one of my grandsons and the men played football, and he was the goalie. You know, all sorts of things.
00:20:48:13 - 00:21:10:06
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I felt that did them the world of good. We tried to get things for nothing. The first year I think we got caramel wafers for nothing and Irn Bru cans. So, we just said, bring a packed lunch and we'll have a good time. And we did have a good time and was one of these things and seeing them like it - later on we even added a sandcastle competition to it.
00:21:10:08 - 00:21:35:23
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
And Maria cheated, because it was only the students that were supposed to get the extras, and she ran and picked up some flowers and put them on the top, that sort of thing. And it made the students think we were human. I think they always knew I was human, but they didn't know about everybody else. I think it was a wonderful for them and the best thing I ever did for them was that you know like, an outing. There were days, we could bring the children, and they did, some of them did.
00:21:36:00 - 00:22:00:06
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
Linda and I, we had got bubbles, supposed to be prizes for the children, but a lot of the students were saying “I’ll take that from you”. And they were doing blowing the bubbles, and we should have just got one for all of them. We enjoyed it, and we felt we could see a difference in the students and as I said, we did it every year. The year my husband died; my husband died on the 12th of May.
00:22:00:08 - 00:22:23:21
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
The trip to Culzean was for a fortnight later. And of course, I wasn’t able to go. So, they told Linda, they'd rather cancel because it wouldn't be right if I was there. Which I felt was a shame, because Linda would have got them enjoying themselves too. But they decided that if I wasn’t there then they weren’t going. I didn't want them to do that, but it did mean something to me that they did.
00:22:23:23 - 00:22:27:00
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I don't think you were there when we went to bowling. We went to ten-pin bowling.
00:22:27:02 - 00:22:44:01
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
No, I wasn't with you at ten-pin bowling, but I did go with you to Culzean Castle one year. And I think that was the year Linda had brought her youngest son along. [Betty: Kevin] I do remember doing the three-legged race, and I'm super competitive. So, I made sure that I won that and brought my packed lunch with me.
00:22:44:07 - 00:23:00:12
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
But it was such a lovely day, and I think, you know, it really bonded not just the students with the lecturers and the teaching staff, but also it helped bring the students together. You know, it was so international, that it brought us all together to share culture, and to share that experience.
00:23:00:12 - 00:23:12:05
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
So, it was a really lovely day. And of course, you know, we had, you know, we had the potluck party on St Andrew's Day and other sort of social events as well that you organized.
00:23:12:07 - 00:23:48:09
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
Well, we did that. And really St Andrews day food, was really just like a Burn’s night because we had haggis and everything and we made sure we got vegetarian haggis. An embarrassing part after it was the number of overseas students who came and asked Linda and I for the recipe for the haggis. Well, we had to tell them, well, you walk along to Morrisons, and you go into the freezer section, and you pick them out. We had both, vegetarian and non-vegetarian and we made sure they were done in different pots and things like that.
00:23:48:09 - 00:24:14:05
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
And they thoroughly enjoyed it. We had one student who had come and said, “Yes, I'm just going to eat this now” and I looked at him because he had potatoes, haggis, turnip, dumpling and custard all in the one plate because I'd made dumpling and custard. He'd had all in the one plate. It all goes the one way, I suppose it does, but I've never mixed that.
00:24:14:09 - 00:24:45:06
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
Again, I think it's something that we – it makes them bond as well talking about their own food. And we enjoyed it, but we enjoyed it more when it was the students bringing in the food, some of that was quite exotic and we loved it. So - but it was nice, and we encouraged the home students to wear tartan and the overseas students to wear their national dress. And quite a lot did.
00:24:45:08 - 00:24:53:16
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I remember seeing you with your St Patrick's Day hat on. [Gary: Oh yeah]. And you had a St Patrick's night party for the students as well.
00:24:53:18 - 00:25:04:24
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
I remember. Yeah, we enjoyed our social events in the masters. It was, yeah. It was lovely to celebrate these occasions. Yeah.
00:25:05:01 - 00:25:27:15
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I’ll just say this one more thing. We had an Indian student, a young doctor, a lovely man. We had a Pakistani student, lovely man. And the Indian student said to me when he was leaving, he said, “You know, Betty, when I came here, I hated Pakistanis” and I looked and said, “But how could anybody hate him.” I said, “Well, that's what I would feel.”
00:25:27:17 - 00:25:48:07
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
And he said, “So it's made me rethink my whole way of thinking.” he said, “Because how many more Pakistanis are like him?” I said, “Well, does it matter as long as you've got somebody that you like.” He said, “They’re one of loveliest people you could meet.” and I thought well, you know the course doesn’t just teach them genetics.
00:25:48:09 - 00:25:58:15
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
It made them realize that people on opposite sides [Gary: Absolutely] can be friends. I know that that's good, that was a good thing for the course.
00:25:58:17 - 00:26:14:24
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
You know, I think the students really valued this approach to creating community within the classroom and community within the master's degree program. Indeed, I heard that the students put you forward for an award, or put the department forward for some awards, is that right?
00:26:15:01 - 00:26:40:08
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
Yes, it was for the best postgraduate team in the UK. That year, we won the best postgraduate course in what used to be the medical faculty, and they stopped faculties. I don't know what faculty we were in then. And then then we won that, and we were encouraged to go in for the university one and we won that and then the students put us forward for the of the UK.
00:26:40:12 - 00:27:01:21
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
And it was down in Manchester. We had applied for that the year before, but we came in third the year before. At that we were sitting – we got a nice meal and all that – and Maria was sitting across the table from me. And when they were announcing the winner, they had said, “oh, and a lot of the good marks, etc. were because of the feedback’’ and I knew that Maria and Leah’s feedback was great.
00:27:02:01 - 00:27:25:01
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
And we looked, looked up at each other, and we thought, “We've done it”, but we hadn't. So, the next time we went down, we were on table 13. we were at the very back of the hall and we won. And Ed Tobias & Maria, ran down, not walk stately, but ran down to the front. And there was more noise from our table than from any other table in the hall when anyone had won it.
00:27:25:01 - 00:27:51:11
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
We were so delighted. It was just wonderful. We got to the station to go home. Ed bought us all a cake or something like that, and it was freezing, and we didn't even notice it. We were so happy we didn’t feel cold, it was a wonderful feeling. And then at the graduation, it was announced that we had won all of them and I said to Maria, on that day when we’d won it.
00:27:51:13 - 00:28:16:13
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I said, “Well, you know, I said, it's quite a good time to go -retire.” She went “You’re surely not retiring this year, Betty.” and I said, “Well, Maria I'm old. Yes, I am retiring” and she said “Well, just maybe see how you feel.” So, I stayed for another wee while. That was it. It was lovely. And the fact the students had put us forward for that one was even better. So that was us.
00:28:16:13 - 00:28:39:07
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Wonderful. What a fantastic achievement. And I think it just shows how much the students value your patience, your kindness and, you know, not just the education but the community. that was created and the inspiration that was given on the program. Betty, you mentioned that you went on to retire, but you did spend a huge part of your life in medical genetics.
00:28:39:09 - 00:28:45:04
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
So, I wonder what does the Duncan Guthrie Institute of Medical Genetics mean to you?
00:28:45:06 - 00:29:11:13
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
Well, to be very honest, it meant a lot to me because although I had enjoyed all my other jobs, I got more satisfaction out of working in the Duncan Guthrie. But with the students, I felt as if I had a relationship with them, and I liked them and we got on well And, I, you know, still hear from some of the students in my emails, I get emails.
00:29:11:13 - 00:29:29:21
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
And when I left - see I left on the Thursday, and I was back in the next Friday. And I knew it was the first time Linda would have been doing the labs on her own and I said, I'll come in on Friday. And one of my grandsons was in a the time and he said, “I’ll drive you up Gran, but I can’t bring you back” and I said “don’t worry that, I’ll get back”.
00:29:29:22 - 00:29:50:13
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
He drove me up and I was there. And then Maria sent for me and said, “Would you like to come back two three days a month, four days a month?” something like that. I had been getting taxis to work because of problems with my back and my hip. And then they arranged taxis that came to pick me up in the morning and take me home at night.
00:29:50:16 - 00:30:15:17
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I only did a few days every month, but it was helping out. And then I stopped and in February and I was I was 72 in the March. But it helped break me in to not working because I had to work for all these years. I loved working in the Duncan Guthrie
00:30:15:19 - 00:30:40:05
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I loved working in the university side. I'm not sure I would have liked the national health side, because I know some of them laughed. The students used to follow me about and they’d say, “oh there’s Betty with her chickens”. And I would say, “Well, you know, they won’t do that to you.” [Betty laughing] Because they were like that to me, in their own way, it was one of these things. We’re all different, we all have different feelings about things.
00:30:40:05 - 00:31:10:03
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
But I enjoyed - I miss meeting all these young people, I really do. I think by meeting all these young people it gave me a different outlook on life and kept me young inside, not on the outside, as you can see, but on the inside it and I miss them. But, if anybody wanted to join the course, I would encourage them to do so because it's a wonderful course.
00:31:10:05 - 00:31:37:06
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I know things have changed a lot. When I left that first time, Frances had made up a memory book. I wondered why I had been blocked on Facebook, but that was because she sent out an email to people. So, she gave me this book and the number of photographs from students - and you’re in it as well - photographs from students from years and years before and comments.
00:31:37:08 - 00:31:59:11
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I even have photographs of people who are now married and had children, who hadn't even met their husbands or wives before that, and all through the book - someone I knew asked if they could look at it. I said, yes and he said, “You know, all these people have now got master’s degrees and all that.” And he said, “You don't have a master's degree, but how many of them have a book like that.”
00:31:59:13 - 00:32:25:21
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
So that was nice. I really loved my job. I loved what I did. There was a few unpleasantries that occurred, but not necessarily students, just those two students that got right up my nose. And the rest of the time, no, I loved working there, and it was hard to retire. But I didn't like the Southern General, well, the University Hospital, the office was over here, the main hospital was there, and the lab was over there.
00:32:25:23 - 00:32:47:02
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
How many miles a day did they want me to walk, when I could hardly walk, you know what I mean? So that was the main reason I retired. If they had stayed at the Duncan Guthrie, I might have had another couple of years out of it. I did feel as well that genetics was moving on - so much comes up. New things come out all the time.
00:32:47:04 - 00:32:56:08
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
And maybe, I was not going to be able to pick them up. So, it was better to go when I knew what I was doing and that was it.
00:32:56:10 - 00:33:03:01
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
And Betty, what did you think about the change of name from the Duncan Guthrie Institute to the West of Scotland Center?
00:33:03:03 - 00:33:31:05
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
Well, you see, when the lab up in the Yorkhill was built, it was the first building in Europe that had been designed for medical genetics. And Duncan Guthrie had come and opened that building on the 3rd of July 1981, and he was a lovely man. He was really so nice. And also, what was the name of the Professor who came from America who came?
00:33:31:07 - 00:33:36:10
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
See this is what I mean, he was lovely too. I was opened on the 3rd of July,
00:33:36:12 - 00:33:37:15
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Was that Professor McKusick?
00:33:37:15 - 00:33:58:06
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
Yes, That's him. He was such a gentleman. Just really, really nice person. He actually came into the marker lab because that’s where Linda and I were, and he offered to take us for tea and scones. But we had to stay in case, people came in the building and wanted to ask us what we did so we did so we didn't get them. But he did ask us, to that was a plus; nice man.
00:33:58:08 - 00:34:00:00
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
There you are. Sounds like a true gent.
00:34:00:01 - 00:34:02:05
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
He was a true gent, he was.
00:34:02:13 - 00:34:17:14
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Betty, you must have seen so many students come through the doors of the MSc in Medical Genetics. Betty, if you could give one piece of advice to the incoming students on the master's program, what would that be?
00:34:17:16 - 00:34:20:03
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I think there's two. Can I say two?
00:34:20:05 - 00:34:22:04
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Yeah. Go for it. Yeah.
00:34:22:06 - 00:34:52:15
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
Don't ever be afraid to admit that you have difficulty in understanding an aspect of the course. Don't pretend that you know, go and ask for help if you need it, because the help will be there unless it's changed dramatically, help will be there. And the other one is, don't ever try to make somebody else look small as it can have the opposite effect. I've seen it happening and I don't like it.
00:34:52:17 - 00:35:20:08
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I don't like it, and I can't always hide it. But people enjoy making someone else look small because it makes them look better. But it doesn't. People should never do it. Complete your assessments on time. Don't be afraid to ask if you’re having difficulty because that's a silly thing to do. So, and if you you’re on this course you shouldn't be silly. So do that.
00:35:20:19 - 00:35:26:20
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Wonderful. Thank you, Betty. And is there anything else that you would like to tell us? Before we finish up.
00:35:26:22 - 00:35:38:09
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
I'd like to say if anyone is listening to this podcast and decides to join the course, I wish them all the best of luck. And part of me wishes I was still part of it.
00:35:38:11 - 00:36:11:10
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
Betty, thank you so much for joining us today on the MSc Medical Genetics and Genomics podcast from the University of Glasgow. It's been inspirational listening to you. You have touched the lives of so many students across the years, and on behalf of all of the alumni, I want to thank you for teaching us, for mentoring us, and for guiding us in our journey, not just as we develop our careers inside and outside of medical genetics, but as you developed us on the course as people and individuals and helped us flourish.
00:36:11:10 - 00:36:13:19
Speaker 1 - Dr Gary Kerr
So, Betty, thank you so much.
00:36:13:21 - 00:36:32:03
Speaker 2 - Betty O’Hare
Thank you.