Transcript: Episode One - On the Origins of the MSc: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:15:13
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Hello and welcome to the Medical Genetics and Genomics podcast from the University of Glasgow.
00:00:15:15 - 00:00:51:16
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
I am Dr Gary Kerr, and I am an alumni of the master's in Medical Genetics program. I am joined today by Professor Sanjay Bidichandani and Dr Eunice-Georgia Stefanou. Sanjay is an accomplished medical professional with a medical degree from Poona University, and also an MSc and PhD in Medical Genetics from the University of Glasgow. He currently holds prestigious positions at the University of Oklahoma College of Medicine, and he is renowned for his research on the epigenetic defect in Friedreich’s ataxia.
00:00:51:18 - 00:01:24:14
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Receiving funding from organizations like the National Institute for Health, Muscular Dystrophy Association, and Friedreich’s Ataxia Research Alliance. In addition to his research, he has held leadership roles and received numerous teaching awards, demonstrating his dedication to education and mentorship in the field of Medicine. Eunice has an extensive background in Genetics, earning a bachelor's degree in Genetics at the University College London and a master's and PhD in Medical Genetics from the University of Glasgow.
00:01:24:16 - 00:02:01:11
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Eunice's research involved innovative techniques like chromosome micro-dissection to identify abnormal chromosome parts in patients with genetic aberrations. After training in Clinical Cytogenetics at Oxford University Hospitals, she returned to Greece and established a postnatal lab whilst teaching medical genetics. Currently, she works as a clinical laboratory geneticist at Erasmus MC in Rotterdam, specializing in whole exome sequencing. Sanjay and Eunice, it is lovely to be with you today.
00:02:01:11 - 00:02:04:04
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Thank you so much for joining us.
00:02:04:06 - 00:02:05:23
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Oh, hello there.
00:02:06:00 - 00:02:07:11
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
Yeah. Thank you for having us.
00:02:07:12 - 00:02:08:13
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Thank you.
00:02:08:15 - 00:02:19:18
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Thank you. We're delighted to have you. So, I want to start off by asking you both about your journey into medical genetics. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got into this field?
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Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Sanjay?
00:02:21:06 - 00:02:44:18
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
I could go first, yeah. So, this is way back in 1990 when I finished medical school. At that time, Genetics was not such a big field. And I think in my medical school time, we were basically taught Down Syndrome, Turner syndrome, a few things like this. And I remember even for the final exams, we didn't have to do much genetics to actually do well in the exams.
00:02:44:18 - 00:02:57:17
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
But a mentor of mine at that time introduced me to the field of Genetics, and it was this new hot field that was developing. And so, I just got hooked onto that and I said, yeah, I think that's something I would like to pursue and find out a little bit more about.
00:02:57:19 - 00:02:59:19
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Great. Thank you. And Eunice?
00:02:59:21 - 00:03:45:05
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Right. As a pupil at school, I wanted to study medicine, but I could also picture myself doing lab work, bench work. So, at that time, people would advise me to study microbiology or dentistry. Genetics didn't exist in their vocabulary. So, when I reached university, I had the privilege at UCL in London to be lectured by several scientist pioneers in their field. And one of my lecturers, back in the early 90s was Professor Joy Delhanty, who was a pioneer in pre-implantation genetic diagnosis.
00:03:45:05 - 00:04:19:04
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
And there I was, as a second-year student, keeping notes of her lectures in a course called Human Cytogenetics. And, up until that point, I didn't like Genetics at all. I hated Drosophila; anything to do with yeast or microorganisms. So, suddenly I was sitting there listening about chromosomes and chromosome disorders, and suddenly, a new world opened in front of me.
00:04:20:04 - 00:04:44:03
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
And then is when I realized that, yes, I could combine my love for both medicine and lab work through this magical field of medical genetics. And so, then I decided to move on to the master's degree in Glasgow. And, one thing led to another. [GARY: fantastic]
00:04:44:03 - 00:04:51:11
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Sanjay, how did you hear about the Medical Genetics master's degree at Glasgow? And what was the road that led you there?
00:04:51:13 - 00:05:10:02
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
Yeah. So, when I finished medical school, the normal thing you do after that is you get into a residency training program. And at that time there wasn't a residency training program in genetics. And so, my plan was to go abroad somewhere, get a master's degree and come back and become a paediatric geneticist.
00:05:10:02 - 00:05:27:06
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
And, in those days, you typically looked at- if you were from India - you looked at the UK and the US. And so, I looked at all places to see if there was a master's program. And the US is not big on master's programs. The moment you finish medical school or bachelor's degree, you go into a PhD program.
00:05:27:06 - 00:05:46:02
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
And that was too much at the time for me to commit to. And so, I just looked for master's programs. And in the UK, there were two; one in London and one in Glasgow, and the Glasgow program was 12 months. It was a one-year program, so that was attractive for that reason. And two, it had a heavy emphasis on clinical application.
00:05:46:02 - 00:05:52:21
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
And so, for me, just coming from the medical background, that just seemed like a perfect match. And so I said, okay, Glasgow it is. [GARY: Wonderful.]
00:05:52:21 - 00:06:04:24
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
So, for both of you, the paths have led to the master's program in Medical Genetics at Glasgow University. Can you tell us a little about your experience during the 12 months of the program? Eunice let's hear from you.
00:06:05:01 - 00:06:27:14
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Yeah. Well, let me also answer back to your previous question that also, back in -I think it was 1991- I wanted to find a course in Medical Genetics so that I would make sure that, yes, that is what I wanted to do. So, I wanted a 12-month master’s course.
00:06:27:14 - 00:06:44:01
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
And as Sanjay said, I thought there were four, but actually, yeah, correctly, there were only two courses. One was in London, so I got an offer to do a master's degree in London. And then I remember my late father telling me there's another one in Glasgow. How about Scotland? Scotland seems to be a beautiful country.
00:06:44:01 - 00:07:13:12
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Yeah, I mean, I did my fair bit in London. Why not try moving up to Glasgow? And that is how I decided to move to Glasgow. But at that point, Scotland had a very good reputation in Medicine and Biomedical Sciences. So, it wasn't only the lifestyle and the culture and moving to Scotland, but also the very good reputation, which proved to be true at the end.
00:07:13:12 - 00:07:15:24
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
So, yeah, closing the parenthesis.
00:07:16:15 - 00:07:19:14
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Great! And was it worth it? Did you enjoy this? [EUNICE: Oh boy]
00:07:19:18 - 00:07:52:12
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Yes, it was! I mean, the master’s course didn't differ much from the curriculum that I did during my undergraduate studies in London, because I graduated from the Department of Genetics at UCL. But it was very well structured. It had three main areas; it gave emphasis to clinical cytogenetics, and then molecular genetics, and biochemical genetics. because the lab I recall was a reference.
00:07:52:17 - 00:08:18:17
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Because the department -I recall- was a reference centre for the prenatal diagnosis biochemical screening. So, it combined seven months of intensive lectures and lab work. And at the end, we had an exam. And then for us, the postgraduate students, we were only 12 at that time (and I remember almost all names of my fellow students).
00:08:19:14 - 00:08:55:08
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Then we had the exam and then we had to choose a thesis. So, the master's degree offered you a lot of skills, like troubleshooting and critical thinking and enough knowledge to embark on a career in medical genetics, a field that was constantly expanding. So, I was very lucky. I had the privilege to attend a couple of clinics run by our Clinical Genetics department, and we had a lot of very distinguished scientists coming and giving talks to the department.
00:08:55:15 - 00:09:20:10
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
But for me, the most important thing was that within the premises of the academic research department, we also had the diagnostic unit. And also, we were in the same premises with the two big hospitals: the maternity hospital and the Royal Hospital for Sick Children. So, for a master's degree student, I think it seems we had the whole world at our feet.
00:09:20:10 - 00:09:26:05
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
So yeah, it was definitely a great opportunity. And, yeah, I was very lucky.
00:09:26:07 - 00:09:27:09
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
For making that decision.
00:09:28:15 - 00:09:37:15
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
It sounds like a great decision and a really close-knit class with just 12 of you in there. And, Sanjay, what were your experiences like on the program?
00:09:37:17 - 00:09:56:20
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
Yeah. So, I was in the year just before Eunice and the structure was basically the same as what Eunice has just described. So, I won't repeat that. Just in terms of the course and the experience of being in the right place with all these different groups in the same environment. But I have to say that it was a very small class for myself as well.
00:09:56:20 - 00:10:20:13
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
I think we were 11 students in my year, and I remember everybody's name too, just like you (Eunice) said. I have to say the extremely friendly environment not just in the class itself, but also, with everybody else, sort of the faculty and all the other collaborative groups, this was kind of interesting because it was the first time for me doing any work in the lab.
00:10:20:22 - 00:10:38:07
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
I mean we did some biochemistry in medical school, but in general, it was the first time I was actually doing molecular type of work. And, you know, Betty and Sue - I think they may have been there for you as well Eunice - set up this really sort of nurturing space where you made mistakes, and it didn’t really matter.
00:10:38:07 - 00:10:55:23
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
And then over time you figured it out and you decided you came to know how to do it yourself. I know I got lucky also that we, during my research project in the master's program, to have discovered something. And Prof. Connor was able to send me to present at the British Medical Genetics meeting.
00:10:55:23 - 00:11:20:04
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
So, this was the first time coming out of medical school and then going to a national conference presenting, and then he also used one of the data slides as a figure in his Essentials of Medical Genetics book, which was like the ultimate compliment for somebody just coming out of school. So, I thought that was a great experience to be in a place where you have the clinicians, the diagnosticians, the faculty and all the other students.
00:11:20:04 - 00:11:22:00
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
Great environment.
00:11:22:02 - 00:11:39:06
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Fantastic. It sounds like you both had a great time on the program. When I think back to my time on the program, one of the great experiences I had was just that close-knit community of learners and peers, which you both mentioned. You still know everyone who was in the class, and I had the same experience.
00:11:39:06 - 00:12:02:08
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
And for me, it was part of the culture within the teaching staff which fostered that community of getting to know each other. And, of course, the international potluck meals, organized by Betty and the rest of the team, really helped cement those long-lasting friendships, in the program. Of course, you were both international students when you were studying your master's program in Medical Genetics in Glasgow.
Were there any challenges which you experienced as an international student?
00:12:07:17 - 00:12:30:01
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Right. So, for me, because as I said, I spent my undergraduate years in London (and I was born actually in London). So, it didn't feel different moving from London to Scotland, compared to perhaps other students that came from different parts of the world. However, there was one challenge, just one. And that was not pub crawling.
00:12:30:04 - 00:12:53:13
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
No. That was the Scottish accent. [Gary Laughs]. To me, that was- I'm not talking about the lecturers in the department, bless them all. They did a fantastic job, and I could clearly understand all my lecturers- and every time I had to get onto a taxi to go to the train station, I was shivering. I was in agony. I'm telling you; I was so scared.
00:12:53:13 - 00:13:18:20
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
What they were going to ask, and what I'm going to answer and if I'm going to answer the correct question or not. So, for me, when it comes to -as a student in Scotland - the only thing that comes to my mind when it comes to the word “challenging” is just the accent. Everything else was just so - everyday life; I will say more about my life in Glasgow later on, but yeah, I didn't find anything challenging.
00:13:18:20 - 00:13:22:02
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Everything was familiar for me, apart from the Scottish accent.
00:13:22:02 - 00:13:24:12
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Just the accent. How about yourself, Sanjay?
00:13:24:14 - 00:13:49:13
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
Yeah, for me it was the weather. So, I remember the program started in October and by then it's already getting cold and rainy. And it was my first time in Scotland. So, December, January, February and by March I was like, I used to pay attention to the weather forecast and you'd have this map of Great Britain. Now they have these fancy ones, but in the old days they had just a map of Great Britain.
00:13:49:13 - 00:14:11:00
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
And this grey cloud with rain coming out of it is right on top of Scotland. And they would say gale force winds drizzling, and I used to walk to the Duncan Guthrie Institute. So, you know, half-an-hour walk. And I actually experienced the weather outside for all those months. And I remember after in March, I remember asking somebody saying, “Does the sun ever shine in Glasgow?”
00:14:11:02 - 00:14:27:03
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
And the person just laughed back at me, and I said, “Okay, I think I got the message”. Now I know, the month of May, maybe the month of June. So, the weather was really the main thing for me. I had actually brought an umbrella with me, which didn't last for a week just because of the wind and stuff like that.
00:14:27:03 - 00:14:35:17
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
And then I was already two umbrellas in by December, and I got a nice, strong one from Boots that lasted me for the rest of the year.
00:14:35:19 - 00:14:48:18
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Fantastic. Yes, the weather is something, which unfortunately we can't control, but you do certainly see four seasons in the same day here in Scotland; sunny Scotland or rainy Scotland, depending which hour of the day it is.
00:14:48:20 - 00:15:30:00
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
But for me, being Greek and Mediterranean, I think a lot of my Greek friends would just ask me “Are you mutated or what?”, because they couldn't understand that every single day I would say, “Oh, lovely.”, I would have to walk up Yorkhill. And when it was windy, as Sanjay said, there was no point in holding an umbrella. But I clearly remember, during my five-year stay in Kelvinhaugh Street as a resident in a postgraduate hall, I would look at the university campus on the opposite side, along with the Kelvingrove Art Gallery, and that was very picturesque.
00:15:30:00 - 00:15:42:23
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
And I clearly remember this picture changing colours in autumn and in winter and in spring. But the weather, I never minded the weather, because I was a winter person. So, I was lucky in that aspect.
00:15:43:00 - 00:15:44:24
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Well, you definitely came to the right place.
00:15:47:16 - 00:16:06:15
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
So, on the master's program, everyone we speak to say that Scotland and the master’s program is famous for its Tunnock’s teacakes. I think they're always given out on coffee breaks on the course. But apart from the mountain of Tunnock’s teacakes, which I'm sure you'll have consumed in Glasgow and in the program.
00:16:06:15 - 00:16:09:16
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Do you have any particular favourite memory from the course?
00:16:09:18 - 00:16:46:18
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Right. Quite a few, quite a few. But I would keep to myself. It was a multicultural environment, and although we were only 12 students, and I remember Patricia from Singapore and I remember, please let me give out these names. I remember Alaa from Egypt and Fouzia and Iptisam from Kuwait and I remember Said, Reza and Morteza and Mushtabhar from Iran and Professor Munis from Turkey, and Professor Hasan from Turkey, and in fact, with quite a few of them I’m in touch over the past few years.
00:16:46:18 - 00:17:11:04
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
So, it was a multicultural environment. And for me it was, as Sanjay said before, it was a family. So, the course organizers, the locals, the people in the department, the people working in the diagnostic department, the students, they all made it in a way that I never felt homesick. So, I really felt that this was my second family.
00:17:11:04 - 00:17:41:19
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
And there were a lot of small instances here and there, because, you know, being Mediterranean and expressing in a certain way, or in a different way from people from the Middle East and my Muslim students. And we had all these little mishaps trying to understand what are you talking about? What are you doing right now? But there were a lot of funny incidents amongst us, because we were all coming from different cultures and different countries, but I only have good memories.
00:17:41:22 - 00:18:04:11
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
In fact, in the department in the big molecular lab where, Sanjay, you were doing your experiments along with Christian and Reza, I used to go to that lab sometimes. I mean, the international students used to work long hours and definitely weekends. So, I spent a lot of long weekends in the department, and I was very bored at once.
00:18:04:11 - 00:18:20:08
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
And so, I put on my music. I was holding my pipettes, and I was on my own in the lab, and I was doing all my fancy dancing, and I didn't realize that exactly opposite was the Royal Hospital for Sick Children and it was the cafeteria-the restaurant. [Sanjay: Laughing]
00:18:21:06 - 00:18:45:20
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
And they were people looking at me. Not once, not twice. I think I was giving this little private show every other weekend. I didn't know that. And it's just after a few months, I realized that there were people standing and applauding. I was like, okay, right back to science now, back to my experiments! But other than that, yeah, a lot of funny little things that were happening among students
00:18:45:20 - 00:18:51:16
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Still, we got to appreciate each other's, you know, culture and so on.
00:18:51:18 - 00:18:56:06
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Fantastic. Sanjay, did you have any particular favourite memory from the course?
00:18:56:24 - 00:19:15:09
Yeah, I'll just point out a couple. So, one is -I was actually born in Sierra Leone in West Africa. And then I went to medical school in India. And so, I've lived in sort of the warmer parts of the world. My origin is from northwest of India, and the people from there, they're big on dancing.
00:19:15:09 - 00:19:33:17
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
So, it's funny that Eunice brought that up. So anytime there's like weddings, there's birthdays, there's anything, dancing is a thing. And I remember when, at least at our time, when the course used to start, they would always open it up with a ceilidh. They would be, you know, just before the course would start. I don't know if, Eunice, they did that for you guys, but yeah.
00:19:33:17 - 00:19:58:24
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
And so, I come in there and I say, okay, perfect place, these guys are into dancing too. And of course, it was a different kind of dancing, and I had to learn the steps and things like that. But so, I thought that was pretty interesting. The other thing that when I knew that we were recording this podcast, I just started thinking back about the time that during the master's program and I'm struck by the fact that we actually ended up getting postgraduate degrees before the Internet.
00:19:59:01 - 00:20:16:21
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
Like it before Google. Right? I I mean, today that is second nature, right? Anything you want to think about, you just Google and that just accelerates the discovery process. And we didn't have that. In fact, my year, the Intel computers hadn't been put into the library at that point. So, we had BBC computers that didn't have a hard drive.
00:20:16:22 - 00:20:34:05
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
They had old floppy drives. And so, you’d put this floppy drive in there. And there used to be a guy in the library area called David Stevenson. I think he was in the biochemical genetics group, and he was this computer whizz guy. And he would tell you there's a balance between saving the stuff that you write, you have to save.
00:20:34:07 - 00:20:50:24
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
You would think you should be saving frequently, but the problem is every now and then it would just get held up and it wouldn't save what you had asked for, and you'd have to start doing it again. So, if you saved too many times, that was actually a bad thing, because sometimes you would just lose the stuff that you had written all that time, and so you'd write it on this green screen. It was in colour.
00:20:50:24 - 00:21:08:07
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
So, you had this little pixel that would keep moving, and it was in green. And that's how we wrote our master's theses, it was on those. And so, when it finished, I got my own computer. And then of course, it got a lot easier. But this is still before the internet, right? So, we had, I think I got my email address in the second year of my PhD.
00:21:08:11 - 00:21:29:16
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandan
We didn't know what to do with the email address. Other people didn't have email addresses. Yeah. It was by the third year that you started communicating by that. So, I just thought just being able to do a master's degree and a PhD before having access to all the things we take for granted today, was something -of course we didn't know then- but it was kind of a unique experience to have done it in those times.
00:21:29:18 - 00:21:39:20
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Yeah, absolutely. Sanjay, good that you mentioned that because 1992 -1993, which was the year when I did my master’s and we had these12 associates from the UK and from the Middle East and from Singapore. None of us had a laptop. None of us had a computer. So that meant that when the time came that we had to write up our theses, we literally - we physically - had to fight who is going to get on the few - I think there were 4 or 5 computers in the library, in the department, and we really had to wake up at 6:00 in the morning and make sure that we were the first there.
00:22:11:14 - 00:22:38:05
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
So, none of us had a computer for our master's degree. And I think, yeah, as you said, no Internet, no Google, a completely different .. I think we were heroes, now that I think about it … [Gary Laughs] I think we were heroes, it was, yeah … And the floppy disks … and oh, the disasters! Who didn't lose any stuff while writing up the thesis? We all had little mishaps, tragedy.
00:22:38:07 - 00:23:16:01
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
The challenges of the past which Gen Z don't have today. [Eunice: Absolutely]. And you don't realize how lucky they've got it in some respects. You both kind of picked up on there about the sort of culture of community and that family aspect to being part of the MSc program. And, you know, when I reflect on my experiences of being on the program back in 2007 into 2008, you know, it really did expose me to people from different cultures, from European nations, from the Middle East, from nations where we have dialog in a different way.
00:23:16:01 - 00:23:35:10
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
And we found ourselves navigating all of these little cultural mishaps. I thought it was just such a safe environment to meet new people, to make maybe some mistakes, but to learn from it. And then also, you know, to break bread and to share dialog and engage in those ceilidh’s, those potluck dinners with people from all across the world.
00:23:35:10 - 00:23:45:13
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
And it seems that the international aspect of the course wasn't as recent as 2008, that it's kind of always been there since the course began. And when you were both on the course as well.
00:23:45:15 - 00:24:17:10
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Professor Connor, who was a professor at the Duncan Guthrie Institute from the mid 80s till the late 90s. He used to organize, Sanjay I don't know if you remember, [Sanjay: barbecue], Organize a party on his little farm with animals and ponies. All of the department would join in. And it was really nice because you would spend your whole day and week and months in the department, and then suddenly you would see the same people outside the department in a different environment.
00:24:17:10 - 00:24:38:12
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
And it was really nice. And I think it's of course, not only Professor Conor's parties on his farm, but I think, Anne Theriault, bless her and I love you so much. And Betty, who made sure that they will get us out of the department and take us and show us a little bit of Glasgow and go for a cup of tea somewhere in the Botanic Gardens and stuff like that.
00:24:38:12 - 00:25:09:06
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
So, the department, the people in the department -and I appreciate that- made sure that we all felt -they tried to make us feel at home and comfortable, and they did an excellent job. And up until this day, I clearly remember most of the names of the diagnostics people; Avril and Jim Colgan and Stuart Imrie and all these people that really helped us to bridge the gap between genetics, diagnostics and research, and at the same time bridge the gap amongst different cultures and make us feel at home
00:25:09:06 - 00:25:14:11
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
So, I really appreciate that. [Sanjay: Nicely said.] And I'll never forget that. Never.
00:25:14:11 - 00:25:30:13
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Great. So yeah, you both sound like you had a fantastic time on the course, you learned a lot, you engaged with Scottish culture, and then you graduated. So, you were fresh graduates. What did you hope to go off and do after your graduation?
00:25:30:15 - 00:25:58:05
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
[Eunice – Sanjay?] I had come there with the idea that I'll just do a master's and I'll leave. But when I did my research project, something just happened. I don't know, I just got hooked on research and I just decided I'm just going to stay and do a PhD. I actually was speaking to Prof. Connor, and he convinced me that if I would stay, that he would support my application for a scholarship from the University of Glasgow to be able to fund my PhD.
00:25:58:09 - 00:26:15:15
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
And, and I said, well, I have a residency program back home. I have, it's going to be difficult for me to stay and anyway…so overall it worked out well because I applied, I got the fellowship, and I've never looked back. I actually didn't go back to do the residency.
00:26:15:15 - 00:26:19:06
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
Just told them I'm doing my PhD and then came to the US.
00:26:19:08 - 00:26:20:17
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Wow, and Eunice?
00:26:20:19 - 00:26:43:11
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Yeah, I mean, doing a Master's course in Medical Genetics, as I said before, was for me, it was a must because I wanted to make sure that this was the field for me. I didn't know how I was going to, if I was going to be involved with research, if I was going to do research or follow academia or go to the industry or do diagnostics.
00:26:43:11 - 00:27:08:02
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
So, as I said, being young, you have questions, you want to test your limits. So, I decided to move on and to carry on and do a PhD, and it’s during the PhD program that I had to take samples from the diagnostics section, and I had to learn analysing chromosomes because I was physically dissecting chromosomes and trying to make them and label them and use them as probes on metaphases.
00:27:08:12 - 00:27:28:09
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
So, in order to establish this new technique that was used in only few labs all over the world, I had to spend a lot of time training in the diagnostics section. So, although, as I said before, one thing led to another, like, let's say from my master's degree, I went to do the PhD.
00:27:28:11 - 00:27:46:16
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Then I really had to decide, okay, so what is next? And it's during my PhD, when it became to make crystal clear that, all I wanted to do is I wanted to create my life, is to do diagnostics so that during all the work I'm doing, at the end of the day, it has a direct impact on people's lives.
00:27:46:16 - 00:28:02:20
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
So, and then another thing stepping to the next, which was my training and so on. So, yes, this was my story. This is my story about my training in Glasgow and how it started. And what was the next step afterwards, after that…
00:28:02:22 - 00:28:20:08
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
From what you're saying there, it sounds like that combination of research plus diagnostics in this educational setting, was really valuable to you, and your career. Do you think that, you know, research and diagnostics go hand in hand with each other?
00:28:20:10 - 00:28:54:24
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Of course. Absolutely. You know, there were a lot of students, in the institute doing research back in the 90s in Cytogenetics. And they established new diagnostic techniques, like, array, CGH-arrays, and micro-dissection, and multicolour FISH. And all these techniques were used by the diagnostic people. It's inevitable. You can't do anything in diagnostics unless you have the tools that you get from the research units.
00:28:55:00 - 00:29:17:15
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
So, this -yeah, this is definitely the case; research and diagnostics go together. And that was the beauty and the strong element of the Department, of being not just an academic and a research department, but also a diagnostic department. So, this gave it, I think, all the stars that it has today in this department.
00:29:17:15 - 00:29:30:16
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
It is especially the case with Genetics, right, because even today, when new techniques come out, you're just able to do diagnostic tests better than you used to in the past. And so, it's still the same paradigm. [Eunice: Absolutely].
00:29:30:18 - 00:29:44:24
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Quite a lot of, scientific advances were made at the Duncan Guthrie Institute of Medical Genetics at the University of Glasgow. Are there any particular advances that stand out for either of you? Sanjay, let's go with you.
00:29:45:01 - 00:30:02:20
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
You know, so at the time, first of all, there were lots of new things, as Eunice said, happening in areas that I was not involved in. So obviously Cytogenetics, they were doing lots, lots of new things. The Biochemical Genetics people were developing new ways to do newborn screening with high volumes and things like that.
00:30:02:20 - 00:30:21:13
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
And so, there was a lot of activity going on, even outside of the narrow field that I was involved in, which was Molecular Genetics. And but in our area, we had really, I would say, a powerhouse of DNA sequencing as a way to diagnose, to find disease-causing variants. So, remember this is before next gen sequencing
00:30:21:13 - 00:30:43:16
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
So, it was actually manual sequencing. But at the time there was this relatively safe version, which was based on using S35. So, we would be running these gels in the open. You didn't have to put any shields or anything like that. So, it was sort of a combination between the new technique, but it was also an art because you had all these lanes that had to stay absolutely straight and run absolutely straight.
00:30:43:16 - 00:31:00:18
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
So, you'd be able to read the sequences well. So, there was this guy in the lab, Charles Mgone. I don't know if you remember Eunice. [Eunice: Of course, I do] So, he was a senior guy from Tanzania. He was a medical doctor from Tanzania, but he had come to do his PhD with us, and he was also in the PGR lab with us
00:31:00:18 - 00:31:22:23
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
He was, I think, two years or three years senior to, to me. And so when I joined, he still had another few months before he left. So, he's the one who actually taught everybody in the in the PGR lab how to do these, sequencing assays. And then after he left, several people would come from all around the world specifically to learn that sequencing technique so that they could go back and apply it in their own diagnostic labs.
00:31:23:03 - 00:31:41:08
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
And so I would say that that was a standout at that time. In fact, we got in those days, you would get papers just for finding mutations in genes that had already been discovered. But they weren't, Sequencing was not a normal thing to do in those days. So very few centres were actually doing that. And the Duncan Guthrie was on the forefront of that.
00:31:41:10 - 00:31:46:09
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
And, Eunice, any standout developments for you from the Duncan Guthrie Institute?
00:31:46:11 - 00:32:13:01
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Yeah. As I said, as I've already mentioned, I was right at the beginning of the transformation of what we used to call Cytogenetics and today we call Cytogenomics. And so back then, I would create, I would make my own FISH probes, and a lot of students nowadays ask me “What? How do you do that?”
00:32:13:01 - 00:32:37:14
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
This is, you get your kits, you just add from your kit, you just take five microliters, and you add it on your slide and that is you making your own. So, and as I said, a lot of students in the department from Iran and from Turkey, postgraduate students through their PhD research they transformed the diagnostic section through multicolour FISH, CGH and CGH arrays.
00:32:37:14 - 00:33:05:00
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
So, there were a lot of things happening in the department, and you because it was a diagnostic section at the same time, you wouldn't see that happening in other academic departments in the UK. So, it was this transformation that happened very fast, and it happened in Glasgow. It happened in the Department of Medical Genetics.
00:33:09:12 - 00:33:28:05
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Great. Lots of great developments there. And I think, as you say, that blend of research and diagnostic and clinical practice and being in a hospital sort of setting as well. It's really helped the institute create these great medical advances. I'm going to ask you a bit of a different question now.
00:33:28:05 - 00:33:44:03
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
So, sorry if I'm putting you on the spot. But what scientific skill do you think would help you the most if you were stranded on a desert island? And that question, let's start with Sanjay.
00:33:44:05 - 00:34:04:16
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
So, I'll give you a researcher's perspective on this one. So, probability of getting a grant is about the same as the probability of being rescued from one of these deserted islands. So, it's a nice metaphor to think about that. So, I would say keep a positive attitude, right? Because we get rejections all the time, so keep a positive attitude.
00:34:05:02 - 00:34:22:12
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
You're deserted, so what? an open mind. So obviously it might happen. And then I would say keep meticulous notes. And be unbiased. So, you don't want to make the same mistakes over and over again. But I think that's something that is almost the same as running a research lab is being on a desert island.
00:34:22:14 - 00:34:24:07
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Great. And Eunice.
00:34:24:09 - 00:35:02:22
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Listen, Gary, I refuse to go anywhere without my music, so it has to be my music. And okay, as far as the scientific part, it's, I think careful observation, but also being optimistic, because I remember very well in my experiments, and I had a lot of failures before getting my best results. I would run a gel, and I would see on the lane where you're supposed to have nothing, I would see a big sign saying to me that I have contamination, and I have contamination, and what I'm amplifying is not my DNA.
00:35:02:22 - 00:35:26:20
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
And that was every week and that was every month. And that was, it seemed to me my whole life. But although I was very carefully trying to observe and see through my dot blotting and my agarose gels what's happening and should I repeat the whole experiment. At the end of the day, you have to be optimistic and persevere.
00:35:26:20 - 00:35:49:16
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
So be positive… have positive thinking and play your music if you can have your little -well, back in those days we had tapes and CDs- but you know your USB full of music. And to be honest, while I was doing my experiments in what we called back then, not sure if we called it the animal house.
00:35:49:16 - 00:36:10:18
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
So, there were people that there were doing developmental biology. They were using- they were doing experiments with transgenic mice. So, there were a lot of cages with mice, and I had to go and use the facilities there. There was a microscope with attached needles, where I had to go and physically dissect my chromosomes, and I would have to dissect small bits.
00:36:10:18 - 00:36:33:20
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
10, 20, 30, 40, 50. And the needle would be stuck in the Eppendorf tube and the needle would break. So, I would spend a lot of time inside that unit, and I was on my own. So, what kept me going was my music. And I would play the music so loud that I don't know if Rosemary Akhurst noticed, because she was the head of the developmental unit.
00:36:33:21 - 00:36:54:00
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
I thought at that time, if she noticed that hear rats were deaf because of my music. But, yeah, it's careful observation and perseverance. This is one of the things that I would love to have on a desert island.
00:36:54:02 - 00:37:16:06
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
It's interesting that both of you mentioned the kind of softer skills required in Genetics and in science, more so than the technical skills of science. So, Sanjay, you know, you speak about having a positive attitude and open mind, you know, being a meticulous note taker. Eunice, you speak about being optimistic, having perseverance.
00:37:16:08 - 00:37:21:10
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Do you think the master's program helped foster those skills in any way?
00:37:21:12 - 00:37:37:04
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
Absolutely. I mean, at least for me, it was, like I said, the first time doing some kind of research, and then you start to realize that there isn't a straight path, right? You need help from people. You need to be able to think of new ideas, that there's no solution out there. You have to find it.
00:37:37:04 - 00:37:56:02
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
And it's the softer skills that actually make you get there. It's because - and anything in terms of techniques that you learn - I mean, those things get obsolete very quickly. And then you have to learn new tricks and new ideas and all of that becomes possible if you are armed with this soft skill set that actually gets you through.
00:37:56:04 - 00:38:23:07
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Yes, I fully agree with Sanjay. And, during the course, we had to do quite a few practical sessions and the practical work also for our thesis. And it's not only having to think and rethink and trying to optimize your techniques and trying to find different ways of doing the same experiment and reproduce the same results.
00:38:23:07 - 00:38:51:19
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
But also, you're part of a group. And for me, I learned a lot of things from my fellow students and from their own projects and research. So, although the project that you're doing in your PhD is your own baby, and it's your own thing and you're working hard on it, never forget that- don't forget that it's better to be part of a team and be a team player.
00:38:51:19 - 00:38:57:02
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
And the results will be definitely fruitful then.
00:38:57:04 - 00:39:13:06
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Absolutely. Sanjay and Eunice, you both have very distinguished careers in medical genetics. Is there anything that you now know that you wished that you knew when you were studying your masters in Medical Genetics?
00:39:13:08 - 00:39:33:09
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
You know, so many of the things we've already talked about here. But if I would say the power of collaboration, I think is something that unfortunately didn't take full advantage of when I was doing my master's and PhD, I think – I mean, we did some - but I think over my research career, just seeing the effect that collaborations have had.
00:39:33:11 - 00:39:53:13
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
So, just different kinds of people coming with different ideas to the table. And suddenly you’ve - it's not just in addition - it's a synergistic role there. And, and I just feel that I wish just looking back, that during my master's years, master's and PhD, that I had maybe taken the effort to actually connect more with the clinical group.
00:39:53:13 - 00:40:01:24
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
I mean, I did, but not as much as I should have. So, I would say collaboration is probably the thing that I was, not as good at, at that time.
00:40:02:08 - 00:40:03:07
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
And Eunice?
00:40:03:09 - 00:40:37:10
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
I would say a different thing because there was a lot -for me - there was a lot of frustration during my PhD; long experiments leading nowhere. It took me a nice journey to Maryland and the National Institutes of Health to get my first results actually. So, my logo is “Don't worry, be happy”. And in fact, Glasgow was declared the first European Capital of Culture in 1990.
00:40:37:10 - 00:41:03:07
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
And Mr. Happy yellow smiley face appeared everywhere as a logo. So, I think you need to give your best self while studying. And you have to be a dedicated student. You have to work hard. But actually, looking back, I would say try and have a good balance in your life, studying and also social life. And Glasgow is the Mecca of a good student life
00:41:03:09 - 00:41:15:10
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
So yeah, don't worry too much. You will get there as long as, you are well organized and you try your best. Be happy. Smile.
00:41:15:12 - 00:41:37:17
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Great. What a wonderful message. And you know, as a Glasgow boy myself, I can say absolutely Glasgow has got the best night life and is there to be enjoyed. And I think this kind of leads nicely onto my next question. If you could give one piece of advice to the current master’s students on the Medical Genetics program, what piece of advice would that be?
00:41:37:19 - 00:41:59:19
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
I would say that, maybe - during your master’s time flies - by the time you start everything is so packed, you start, and you get to the end of 12 months before you know it. So, I would say maybe think at least a third of the way in, or maybe some way in that, you know, early phase to think of what areas do you really want to get deep into
00:41:59:19 - 00:42:17:12
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
And there are so many resources available. There's just no way in 12 months that you're going to become an expert in every area. But if you've discovered your passion towards the end of the 12 months, it's a little too late to start getting into and tapping into the resources that are available. So, I would say early stages just start to think of all that and speak to everybody.
00:42:17:13 - 00:42:28:18
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
Think of collaborating with everybody. But but try to figure out what area or few areas that you want to really get deep into. So you might be able to tap into all the resources that would be available.
00:42:29:02 - 00:42:29:16
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Great. And Eunice?
00:42:29:18 - 00:42:56:08
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Yeah. I mean, the course was organized back then, and I'm sure it's still organized in the same way now that within the first few months you have a picture of what's going on in medical genetics or genomics, which you said correct word now. So, you have all the information is there. So as a student around Christmas or just after Christmas, or later on.
00:42:56:08 - 00:43:32:05
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Yeah, around January, February. Try and have a little chat with yourself and see and talk to people, as Sanjay said. Talk to the diagnostic people, talk to the academics, so that you find the right place for you at the right time. And of course, passion is the key word. You really have to love what you’re doing with every single cell of your body, because there could be plenty of ups and downs and a few difficult crossroads in your life if you don't-
00:43:32:10 - 00:43:40:01
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
If you don't feel passionate and enthusiastic about what you're doing about your chromosomes or about your genes.
00:43:40:17 - 00:43:55:09
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Or your Chromosome territories or your cells or anything that you are studying, forget about it. So, make sure you find what you like and embrace it and go for it.
00:43:55:11 - 00:44:15:02
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Wonderful. What great advice. And can I just say the passion and enthusiasm from both yourselves, Eunice and Sanjay and also the optimism that you have, and that positive mindset has really shone through in this, podcast. I think, you know, that's great advice for and a great lesson for the current master's students.
00:44:15:02 - 00:44:25:22
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Just to keep up that passion and enthusiasm and to really, follow their interests. Before we finish up, is there anything else that you would like to tell us, [Eunice: Sanjay?]
00:44:25:23 - 00:44:48:17
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
Yeah, for me, coming to Glasgow was a pivotal moment in my career because remember the plan was to come to Glasgow, spend a year and then go back and become a clinician. Instead, I stayed another three years and then didn't go back to the clinic and actually started my research career. And I have to say that Glasgow actually armed me with the right skillset.
00:44:48:18 - 00:45:06:22
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
That allowed me to actually make the research career successful. So, you were introducing me and telling me, just saying all these things about how my research career has progressed. I think people get PhD’s from all around the world, and PhD’s are generally considered equivalent to each other, but we all know that they are not.
00:45:06:24 - 00:45:26:04
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
You know, you can get somebody with a PhD and they don't have the right skill sets to actually make their research career work out. And I have to say that coming from Glasgow, with the right training set and coming to the US, I actually came with a huge asset. You know, I had Rosemary Akhurst and George Lanyon, both of them were my mentors for my PhD.
00:45:26:04 - 00:45:54:13
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
And then Prof. Connor, who was giving us the sort of the clinical aspects of all the research work that was going on. So, I came to do my postdoc and because of Rosemary access, his name recognition, people already knew whose lab I had come from. And so that sort of helped set the stage for success moving forward. So, I have to give a big thanks to Glasgow for arming me with the right skill set to move up to the career that was that has been possible over these past few years, a past many years.
00:45:54:15 - 00:46:21:22
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Yeah. I mean exactly. Yeah, I would copy-paste the last sentence from Sanjay. I was at a crossroad in my life when I finished my PhD, I didn't -I had a couple of interviews for- to do a postdoc in the UK and in the States. And then there was an opening in Oxford, which I accidentally found because I was standing in the middle of the corridor with my pipettes, and I was contemplating, should I go for coffee?
00:46:22:02 - 00:46:52:02
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Should I go and book a slot for PCR? or should I go back to the lab? And it was just standing in front of a noticeboard, and it was having this information about a training post in Oxford, with the deadline at 5:00 in the afternoon of that very day. [Gary/Sanjay Laughing]. So, it was 4 O’clock. I went, I picked up the phone, I called Oxford and there was a Scottish lady answering the phone, and she was the secretary.
00:46:52:02 - 00:47:18:21
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
And when she realized that I was calling from Glasgow, she did everything and anything to make sure that my application would get there before 5:00. And there I was two days later sitting for the interview. And thanks to all the skills and all the stuff that I have learned over the past five years or six years in Glasgow, I got the post, the job with flying colours.
00:47:18:21 - 00:47:43:17
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Of course, I was applying for the wrong post and when I went to the interview, I got the right job. But anyway, for me, Glasgow has a very special place in my life. Not because it gave me all the necessary qualifications to be who I am today scientifically, but also because I made - I have everlasting memories.
00:47:43:17 - 00:48:08:03
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
I made friends for which I have up till today, very dear friends from all over the world and from Greece as well. And I met my husband in Glasgow. We were just good friends for 18 years, and after 18 years we became an item, and we got married, and we have a family. And our dream is to,
00:48:08:06 - 00:48:36:05
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
to get on the plane, visit Glasgow with our son one day. And reunite with our dear friends. Most of them have retired now from Glasgow, the Medical Genetics department. But I trust through the alumni -and this is a great idea, the idea of the podcast series- that we can all keep our strong memories and our connections and, well done to this beautiful idea.
00:48:36:08 - 00:48:50:05
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
I am very happy and honoured, of course, to share the podium with Sanjay. And yeah, Glasgow will be always in my heart, and I hope to see your faces and to see you all soon at some point.
00:48:51:00 - 00:49:21:05
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
Wonderful. Thank you so much! Thank you, to both of you. As the podcast comes to an end, I've got to say that I myself am feeling so passionate and enthusiastic. You know, you've really installed a positive mindset in me over the past hour or so on the podcast. Professor Sanjay and Dr Eunice, it has been an absolute pleasure speaking to you today on behalf of all of the other alumni and everyone else in the podcast organising team.
00:49:21:15 - 00:49:39:15
Speaker 1 - Dr. Gary Kerr
I would like to say thank you for coming along today and for sharing, you know, your beautiful stories of your Master's time, when you were here in Glasgow and your amazing careers, that you've had afterwards. It's been really, inspiring. So, thank you to both of you. And good afternoon.
00:49:39:17 - 00:49:42:21
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Thank you. We'll be in touch.
00:49:42:23 - 00:49:48:21
Speaker 3 - Dr. Sanjay Bidichandani
Thank you so much Gary, and great host. And we should also thank Saeedafor putting all of this thing together.
00:49:48:21 - 00:50:07:01
Speaker 2 - Dr. Eunice-Georgia Stefanou
Thank you very much. Yeah.