Transcript: Episode Five - Adding Genomics to the MSc & Enhancing Worldwide Genomics Education with New Resources & International Partnerships
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
Welcome to the Medical Genetics podcast from the University of Glasgow. My name is Navodya Gamage and I am an alumna of the MSc Medical Genetics and Genomics program. And I'm joined today by Professor Ed Tobias, who is the Clinical Director of this program. It was Ed who created the new clinical genomics course for the MSc program, leading to the MSc being renamed in 2015 to include the word genomics.
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
Ed is a clinical geneticist, a multi-award-winning university lecturer, and is also very active in genomics education internationally. Hello Ed. Welcome to the podcast. Can you tell us a bit about yourself?
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Hi, Navodya. It's a pleasure to talk to you again!
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I studied both medicine and molecular biology at university and then trained as a doctor and as a lab researcher in Glasgow. As I did a PhD in molecular biology at one point, I think that over the years, one way or another, I must have been a student for about ten years! Now I'm a clinical geneticist, researcher and educator based at the University of Glasgow and at the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
In recent years, I've had the privilege of teaching a total of over 10,000 undergraduate and postgraduate students, I think, from the UK and from many other countries. Many of the students have asked me questions that have really made me think. I feel honoured that in recent years I've been invited to join five international genetics and genomics education-related committees,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
working with many leaders in the field from around the world, including the successor of Victor McKusick at Johns Hopkins, Professor Ada Hamosh.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I've been very fortunate in many ways, as I have wonderful colleagues, and I greatly enjoy the work that I do, although I sometimes struggle to find time for everything!
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
Could you provide an overview of your journey and experience in the world of genetics and genomics?
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I was inspired to become a doctor,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
by my school-teachers and my parents. My father, Cecil Tobias, loved his work as a GP, despite his enormous workload in one of the least wealthy areas of Glasgow, and he discussed a range of different medical conditions with me.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
My mother.,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Vivienne Tobias, worked in hospitals as a medical social worker and discussed the psychological and social aspects of medicine with me.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I studied medicine at Glasgow University, where I was offered the chance to spend an extra two years that were hugely enjoyable studying for a BSc in Molecular Biology. It included a lot of molecular genetics, which I loved, and the opportunity to do summer jobs involving DNA sequencing of endocytosis-associated clathrin genes at Harvard Medical School, and later sequencing multiple sclerosis associated genes at Caltech in California. At that time, to carry out DNA sequencing, we used to have to pour large polyacrylamide gels.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Unfortunately, before setting, the liquid would often dribble out the bottom of the mold, all over the bench. It was a very messy business! Later, I was offered a PhD in molecular biology, supervised by Professor Miles Houslay, and then a post-doc on cancer genes at the Beatson Institute for Cancer Research. I then suddenly discovered the specialty of Clinical Genetics, which I was previously unaware of, and I then trained in that specialty for four years and became a consultant in 2001 with a particular interest in cancer genetics.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I joined the Glasgow team of clinical geneticists, a team of kind, highly thoughtful and very knowledgeable people providing the
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
National Health Service clinical genetic service for nearly 3 million people in the West of Scotland.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
For the first six years in that post, I was lucky enough to be awarded a six-year Senior Cinical Research Fellowship, in particular researching a region on chromosome seven that appeared to contain a previously undiscovered tumor suppressor gene named TES.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
We published our work in Oncogene and Nature Genetics. It was controversial at the time, but other groups have since confirmed our results.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
My later research has involved working on melanoma genetics and more recently, on developmental genes, in collaboration with the Scottish Genome Partnership and with the UK DDD (or Deciphering Developmental Disorders) study, using data from whole exome and whole genome sequencing.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
It's been wonderful to be able to use the techniques of whole exome sequencing and whole genome sequencing to be able to give molecular diagnoses to patients who have been waiting years to find out what the underlying cause of their problems is. I’m now developing techniques for long read sequencing in collaboration with colleagues, including Dr McKay Bounford, and students in Glasgow University and the NHS. Whilst doing clinical work and genetics research, I’ve become increasingly involved in education in different ways.
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
Was there a turning point in your life which inspired you to become an educator in this area?
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Well, I had done occasional genetics teaching for students and doctors
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
whilst I was a trainee, and I spent a lot of time writing a new edition of the student textbook
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
called Essential Medical Genetics that was translated into four other languages,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
and later another book for postgraduate doctors.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
It was an honour to discuss the book's content with its original authors, Professor Mike Connor and Professor Malcolm Ferguson Smith.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
During that time, I'd watched a senior university colleague, Doctor Douglas Wilcox, seeing how he inspired students, encouraging interaction, participation and discussion.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
It was not until
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
2010 that I had the chance, myself, to try teaching a large class of students around 300 medical students, one day, standing in for Douglas Wilcox when he was unfortunately unwell.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
It seemed a huge class, and I wondered if any of the students would actually listen to anything that I said.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
To my surprise, the students and the course organizers were very grateful and I received very appreciative feedback.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Not long after that, in 2010 or 2011, my boss and mentor, professor Mike Connor, took early retirement and I took on his administrative responsibilities for running the University Medical Genetics Unit.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Around that time, my senior colleague and friend, Douglas Wilcox retired too, and I took on most of his teaching roles at the university.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I also created a new full medical genetics course for medical undergraduate students.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
This is a course that I've continued to deliver annually, and more recently I've been able to publish an updated medical genetics and genomics undergrad curriculum for Scotland.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Later, in 2015,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I also created a new course for master's students to help them learn about the relatively new field of clinical genomics.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
The techniques were different and involved much bioinformatics terminology, and with its growing importance in medical genetics research and diagnostic labs. I felt it was important that the students should be able to learn about it in detail. I've had the privilege of teaching hundreds of masters students on topics including clinical problem sessions, cancer genetics, medical ethics, and clinical genomics.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I've also had the honour of being an external examiner for several other universities in the UK and Europe,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
And as I mentioned earlier, I currently have the privilege of being an invited member of some international education committees and of chairing one of the HUGO subcommittees.
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
Genetics and genomics are rapidly evolving fields. How do you keep your teaching materials and methods up to date to ensure your students are well prepared for the latest advancements?
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
That's a good question! You're right. It isn't easy to keep completely up to date.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I go to conferences, for example, the annual European Society of Human Genetics conference.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
and I learn a lot from discussing genetics and genomics with local colleagues and with other members of the international education committees that I've got the privilege of sitting on.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I also read the latest literature in preparation for giving talks to my post graduate and undergraduate students, and to my clinical colleagues, and I listen to podcasts such as those created by the European Society of Human Genetics.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
So it's a combination of things.
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
This discipline can be quite complex for students to grasp, and you have come up with different strategies to simplify these concepts, such as mobile apps. Can you tell us a bit more about that?
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
in general, I think hard about how to make complex concepts as simple and as summarised as possible, at first. And then I add more detail and complications later.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
In relation to the apps.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I think it goes back to a time when I was on a family holiday on the island of Mull in Scotland, when, to be honest, it was
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
raining non-stop and it was too wet to go outside on our bikes.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
So, instead, while we waited for the rain to stop, my sons helped me to learn how to write code to create smartphone apps.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
So I created a couple of educational smartphone apps for Masters students to help them learn and test themselves on clinical genomics terminology.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I then submitted the apps to the worldwide app stores for anyone to download for free.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
And since then, they've received lots of very kind five star reviews, and they've been used in over 70 countries by thousands of users.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I've also created a set of apps for medical students to learn the inheritance mechanisms of about 45 genetic disorders.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
But it's taken ages. I've also created virtual reality apps. I've been fascinated for years by
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
three dimensional molecular structures of proteins
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
and how these can be affected even by small changes in the amino acid sequences.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
But it's hard to fully appreciate that kind of structure on a two dimensional screen,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
and students often find it difficult to imagine the effects of an inherited variant on a protein, and how that can cause the protein to stop functioning and result in the disease.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
So, together with
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Adam Dundas at the university, I created an app for virtual reality headsets that allows the student to select any one of the approximately 150,000 protein molecules in the PDB databank. Then, in the virtual world, the student can enter the inside of the protein, rotate the molecule around, take precise measurements, for example across binding sites or active sites, and compare the three dimensional structure of a normal protein molecule with that of a disease-causing variant version.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Students are able to see for themselves how, for example, a single amino acid change in, let's say, BRCA1 can change the folding of the encoded protein, potentially preventing the BRCA1 protein from binding to other important DNA repair proteins, and resulting in an
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
inability to carry out its normal function.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
The software is now being made available free to universities around the world, and here in Glasgow University, there's now a dedicated virtual reality lab where any student can go
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
and try it out for themselves.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I also created a couple of web based guides to online genomics educational resources,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
and I presented one of these, EuroGEMS.org, to the board of the European Society of Human Genetics, who endorsed it and actually paid for its translation by genetics professionals, including two of our ex MSc students, I should say,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
into Spanish, Portuguese, and most recently, French.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I've been pleased to learn that that free online genetics guide has actually now been used by people in over 140 countries,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
including many countries that have far fewer genetic educational opportunities and resources of their own.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
In 2021, the European Society of Human Genetics very kindly awarded me their Education Award, which they had not awarded to anyone in the preceding four years. I felt very humbled.
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
That's really interesting.
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
I remember I used your app during my MSc as well.
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
It's a real game changer!
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Oh, thank you!
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
In 2015, you added a course on clinical genomics, and with the agreement of your colleagues, you renamed the program as the MSc in Clinical Genetics and Genomics. What made you think of doing that?
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Well, I was just, I think, very aware of the rapidly improving technology for DNA sequencing of the whole exome and the whole genome, and also aware that clinical genomics was becoming increasingly important. I could see that the research that was presented at national and international meetings was increasingly focused on genomics. So I felt that it was really important for the MSc itself to have a major genomics component so that it could retain its world-leading position.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
The optional course on clinical genomics,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
has included a series of hands on computer workshops that I run, and I have to say, thankfully, it's been very well attended, not just by our own MSc students,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
but in fact
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
by other students from other MSc programs,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
with over 60 students in some years.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
So we've kept it!
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
You are involved in teaching to learners of all levels, from school students to graduates. What strategies do you specifically use to make complex concepts of genetics more understandable to this varied audience?
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
well, I still remember what it's like to be a student when a university lecturer is talking too quickly and showing very complicated, detailed slides.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
So I do my best to start off simply and clearly making it a bit more complicated later on, if appropriate.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
And I try to show diagrams, animations
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
and videos, and to use interactive electronic quizzes throughout to reinforce the teaching. I love getting students to participate and interact during teaching sessions. I teach them the key concepts and include the latest techniques, genomics terminology, and how to use the best databases to find the latest information on each of the thousands of rare conditions,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
and about the genes and proteins involved.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
For young school pupils, though, I often use toys, so I've used little building bricks in four colors to represent the four bases of DNA, getting the children to link them together to show base pairing and even gene therapy.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Sometimes I use a stopwatch so they have to race against the clock.
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
With almost 30 years of teaching at both undergraduate and postgraduate levels reaching thousands of students, how does that profound impact of being part of so many individuals lives
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
resonate with you?
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
To be honest, I feel incredibly lucky to have had the opportunity to teach so many students.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I believe it's an enormous privilege. I really do. I've received so many wonderfully kind and appreciative feedback comments and emails. A few university of Glasgow students have, for example, written to me to tell me that they were initially dreading genetics lectures, but now afterwards feel that the subject is so interesting that they're actually considering a career in that field.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
It really means so much to me to hear that. And I suppose it's one of the things that I'm most proud of.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Being selected by students to receive a teaching award in four separate years was an extra bonus. I keep in touch with former students where possible, for example, with,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
genetics experts in Taiwan and in Malaysia who are both ex-students and have very kindly invited me to visit them and deliver talks at,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
prestigious meetings in the Far East, which I've been delighted to do.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
of course!
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Having taught so many students, many of whom are now working in other countries around the world,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
has led to some very pleasant surprises. For example, I was on holiday with my family in Japan not long ago and we were wandering around in a quiet part of Kyoto when suddenly a quite serious looking young man whom I didn't recognize, headed straight towards me.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I was slightly unsure what to do. Thankfully, he said hello and introduced himself as one of my previous medical students. That was very nice and to be honest, quite a relief!
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
Could you recount a particularly inspiring or memorable teaching moment.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
yeah, I think there have been many actually.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
for example,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
discovering that ex students were now running genetic services in Cambridge, UK. And as I mentioned, in Taiwan and Malaysia and lots of other places,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
also,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I remember encouraging a second year undergraduate student to ask what he thought was going to be a really stupid question, but in fact, it was instead a very profound question about why DNA variants in the same gene can cause,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
both autosomal dominant and autosomal recessive disorders.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Another time, hearing that a student who had used my apps had used that knowledge to impress an interview committee and had as a result, won a grant worth 120,000 pounds. So that was nice! And another time, I remember after teaching a seven year old child about DNA using the colored bricks that I mentioned,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I remember hearing her tell her mum that she now wanted to be a “DNA doctor”! So that was particularly memorable.
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
With the ever-changing landscape of science, what do you envision for the future of genetics and genomics education? And, how do you plan to adapt your teaching to stay ahead of the curve?
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Good question!
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Education in this field, as in many others, is increasingly being delivered online.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
This is particularly important for individuals in many parts of the world who may not be able to afford to pay for travel, accommodation and fees to receive teaching or training face to face. And my colleagues and I have spent a lot of time and energy creating online courses, sometimes called MOOCs, on genetics and genomics, that are suitable for anyone, even without a genetics background.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
So with Leah Marks, Gerhard May, Maria Jackson, and Saeeda Bhatti, I've been involved in creating massive open online courses or MOOCs. I've contributed to three MOOCs on the FutureLearn platform with my colleagues: one on cancer genomics, one on how DNA influences health, and also one on genomic medicine for which I was the course lead. These MOOCs have now been used by over 45,000 learners in 115 countries around the world.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
The courses have been taken by general practitioners, hospital physicians and students. It's so exciting to be answering questions on genetics from enthusiastic learners in other countries around the world, such as in Africa or South America.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
There's an increasing use of AI in the field for research and in diagnostics. I've tried using the software myself to find out what that kind of software can and can't do, whether it is in syndromic diagnosis by facial recognition, in DNA variant interpretation, or even in the prediction of 3D protein molecular structure. I think it's highly impressive technology with potentially huge benefits, and I've built it into the teaching that I provide.
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
We'll hear more about MOOCs and how they're developed from Doctor Leah Marks in the next podcast.
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Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
You mentioned that you were invited to join a number of international education committees. Can you tell us a bit more about that?
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
well, I was invited by Professor Han Brunner to join the Education Committee of the European Society of Human Genetics, which he chaired at the time. And I've been a member of that committee for a few years with responsibility for building and maintaining the EuroGEMS.org website. I've also had the honour of representing that committee as
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
lead author on a journal publication about its activities.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I was also invited to join and participate in the Committee for the European Certificate in Medical Genetics and Genomics, or ECMGG
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
exam creating and running an annual examination for clinical geneticists to take at the end of their specialist training. That exam is open to all clinical genetics trainees worldwide. I have to admit, it takes a lot of work to create the exam, but it's becoming increasingly accepted across Europe as a national standard specialty exam.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Then, about three years ago, I was invited to join the HUGO or Human Genome Organisation International Education Committee. I was expecting to recognise no one at all, but instead I found that two out of the other ten members present that day were ex-MSc students of ours! That's true! This has led to the honour of representing the work of the HUGO Education Committee at two international meetings.
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
The work has included conducting an online global survey to determine the needs of medical professionals worldwide in relation to training in clinical genomics. The committee also provides training and courses in clinical genomics in, for example, variant nomenclature and variant interpretation. And, on the subcommittee that I chair, we make information on genomics and educational resources in courses available to anyone worldwide. Through the HUGO committee,
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Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I've had the privilege of discussing education strategy and courses in detail with Professor Ada Hamosh, who I mentioned before, who's the head of genetic medicine at Johns Hopkins in the USA and who now continues the work of Victor McCusick, running the world-leading database known as or OMIM, or Online Mendelian Inheritance in Man. I feel very fortunate to have had that opportunity.
00:23:02:13 - 00:23:16:19
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I'm also an invited member of the steering committee of the APOGeE group led from Paris, that's currently creating a free online interactive genetics and genomics textbook for clinical genetics specialists and trainees.
00:23:16:19 - 00:23:31:03
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
And I was recently invited to speak on genomics education at the Sanger Institute near Cambridge, and I've since been invited to join a new global genomics education collaborative partnership providing genomics education globally.
00:23:31:08 - 00:23:42:21
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I have to say that on each of these committees, it's really been an honor and a pleasure to be able to discuss genetics and genomics education and assessment with so many leaders from so many countries.
00:23:43:05 - 00:24:06:16
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
I know that you have won a research prize from the British Society of Genetic Medicine and also many educational awards, including four personal training,and teaching awards from students and a Teaching Excellence award from the university. And more recently, you were awarded the Education Award by the European Society of Human Genetics. What have these awards meant to you?
00:24:06:16 - 00:24:08:09
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
These are all very humbling.
00:24:08:09 - 00:24:42:02
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
It was a huge surprise to win the research prize awarded by the British Society of Genetic Medicine (or BSGM). The prize was for research that I had done in the lab to investigate the complicated, unusual and absolutely fascinating mechanism of inheritance of the SDHD-gene-related cancer predisposition that had unfortunately affected several of my patients. I presented the work at the BSGM Conference and it was later published in a top American journal.
00:24:42:04 - 00:25:01:04
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
It was incredibly exciting research and was a collaboration with a number of my many inspiring NHS colleagues. My genetics NHS collaborators included Victoria or Vicky Murday, Rosemarie Davidson, Sandy Cooke and Nicola Bradshaw.
00:25:01:04 - 00:25:20:09
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I always feel that teaching undergraduate and postgraduate students from all over the world is a privilege in itself. I put a lot of energy and preparation into my teaching, and receiving recognition of any sort is always a bonus, especially when the awards are made by the students themselves.
00:25:20:09 - 00:25:23:04
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I feel hugely honoured to win the awards, of course,
00:25:23:04 - 00:25:30:12
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
but I'm fully aware that there are many other people who do wonderful, inspiring things but aren't fortunate enough to be recognized in that way.
00:25:30:12 - 00:25:43:03
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I’m particularly proud of the fact that several undergraduate and postgraduate students whose research I've supervised have themselves won several awards for their lab-based and genomics analysis research that
00:25:43:03 - 00:25:46:15
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
they did with me. And that's always very special to hear.
00:25:46:15 - 00:26:03:23
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
Apart from education and training, you're also involved in genomics research, Stem outreach and the diagnostic sector. As a consultant clinical geneticist in the NHS. What keeps you motivated to give your best in everything you do?
00:26:03:23 - 00:26:08:04
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
just feel very privileged to have a job that I really enjoy doing.
00:26:08:04 - 00:26:09:24
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Actually teaching, research, and
00:26:09:24 - 00:26:10:13
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
and
00:26:10:13 - 00:26:11:08
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
clinical work
00:26:11:08 - 00:26:12:03
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
are all,
00:26:12:03 - 00:26:16:06
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
so involving that they feel like separate jobs. But of course, they're all interlinked.
00:26:16:06 - 00:26:21:08
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I'm also, I feel very privileged to have wonderful and inspiring colleagues here in Glasgow,
00:26:21:08 - 00:26:26:14
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
both in the university and in the NHS, but also in the various committees that I'm on worldwide.
00:26:26:14 - 00:26:51:20
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I'm passionate about helping people of different backgrounds and in different locations to understand genetics and genomics. I'm also fascinated by the precise mechanisms by which molecular genetic variants result in genetic conditions, particularly as the knowledge of these mechanisms is now leading to the development of an increasing number of exciting new therapies.
00:26:51:24 - 00:26:57:01
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
It's great to see the benefits of education to the students and to schoolchildren,
00:26:57:01 - 00:27:08:13
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
and I suppose I always try to accept the opportunities that are offered to me. I think I feel that we should all make full use of the relatively limited time that each of us has in life.
00:27:09:05 - 00:27:13:21
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
Looking back, is there anything you would like to tell your younger self? And,
00:27:13:21 - 00:27:20:01
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
similarly, what advice you would like to give to anyone who's studying or wanting to study genetics?
00:27:20:01 - 00:27:21:18
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I think I'd say
00:27:21:18 - 00:27:30:01
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
to myself, don't worry about experiments not working in the lab. It's probably not your fault.
00:27:30:01 - 00:27:43:12
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I spent months at the start of my PhD trying to get Western blots to show a clean single band for a protein that I was working on. I struggled and blamed myself for failing
00:27:43:12 - 00:27:48:22
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
every Friday afternoon when I received the non-specific results before going home.
00:27:49:03 - 00:27:58:09
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I didn't know, at the time, that I was using non-specific polyclonal antibodies, with really very little chance of giving a single band.
00:27:58:09 - 00:28:04:04
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I think I'd also tell myself not to be afraid to pursue an ambition.
00:28:04:04 - 00:28:10:16
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I was told that I couldn't combine a university-based career and seeing patients,
00:28:10:16 - 00:28:14:10
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
and perhaps I shouldn't have worried too much about that advice.
00:28:14:12 - 00:28:16:20
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
And it turned out to be possible in the end,
00:28:16:20 - 00:28:22:05
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
though I studied for several extra years and had to win research fellowships along the way
00:28:22:05 - 00:28:29:01
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
and, of course, take lots of exams. And in relation to advice that I'd give anyone who's wanting to study genetics....
00:28:29:01 - 00:28:35:16
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
well, don't worry about joining others who seem more knowledgeable or more experienced than yourself.
00:28:35:16 - 00:28:38:00
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I've had to do this a number of times.
00:28:38:00 - 00:28:48:01
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
for example, when I joined 12 postdoctoral scientists and experienced PhD students in the laboratory where I did my PhD.
00:28:48:01 - 00:28:48:24
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I remember
00:28:48:24 - 00:28:50:02
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
when I started
00:28:50:02 - 00:29:00:18
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
that PhD, I entered the laboratory, which was filled with 12 non-medical scientists, as I mentioned. And I overheard someone say: “Oh oh, here comes the medic!...
00:29:00:19 - 00:29:02:24
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
He'll be useless!”
00:29:02:24 - 00:29:04:20
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I felt pretty low.
00:29:04:20 - 00:29:27:14
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Later that day, though, one of the senior scientists accidentally smashed a beaker containing pure ethanol and also simultaneously knocked over a Bunsen burner, setting the ethanol on fire all over the lab bench. Not only did I have to help him to put out the resulting fire, but I also had to remove a piece of broken glass from his hand.
00:29:27:16 - 00:29:35:09
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
After everyone realized that the building wasn't going to burn down and that the scientist was going to be okay. We all became good friends.
00:29:35:09 - 00:29:41:07
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
So even if you have to go through some difficult times, just believe in yourself. I would also say,
00:29:41:07 - 00:29:44:02
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
keep applying. Don't give up. If you're initially
00:29:44:02 - 00:29:59:13
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
unsuccessful in an application. I remember I applied for between 15 and 20 summer jobs in the USA when I was an undergraduate, and I only received one positive reply out of that lot, but it was from Harvard.
00:29:59:24 - 00:30:00:20
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
So don't give up!
00:30:00:20 - 00:30:15:12
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
and also, I'd say take opportunities, even if they seem scary and realise you can probably achieve more than you expect. I would say pursue what interests you and do that as well as you can. Time is precious.
00:30:15:12 - 00:30:22:12
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Work hard and take career-related opportunities when they arise....even if they sound scary, as I said.
00:30:22:14 - 00:30:27:24
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
And if things don't work out the first time you try, or even the second or the third time, do persevere.
00:30:28:20 - 00:30:30:06
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
I think that's really helpful.
00:30:30:06 - 00:30:35:00
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
At last, is there anyone in particular who you want to thank?
00:30:35:07 - 00:30:45:00
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I've been very grateful for research funding from TENOVUS Scotland, the Medical Research Council, the Scottish Chief Scientists Office,
00:30:45:00 - 00:30:50:21
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
the Wellcome Trust and the Yorkhhill Research Support Scheme, over the years.
00:30:50:21 - 00:30:59:20
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I'd want to thank all my wonderful colleagues in the National Health Service, in Glasgow University and at many other institutions around the world
00:30:59:20 - 00:31:04:24
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
and I'd want to thank all my students over the years who have given me the opportunity to teach them.
00:31:05:01 - 00:31:06:09
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I'm also very grateful
00:31:06:09 - 00:31:10:07
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
to the students and to the ESHG for their education awards, of course,
00:31:10:07 - 00:31:20:07
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
and I'm hugely grateful to my wife and our two sons for their support and for putting up with me when I've been immersed in work. And of course, I'm very grateful to you,
00:31:20:07 - 00:31:22:01
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
to Saeeda Bhatti
00:31:22:01 - 00:31:26:01
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
and to the other members of the podcast team for putting all this together.
00:31:26:10 - 00:31:27:17
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
To conclude things,
00:31:27:17 - 00:31:30:04
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
just out of curiosity, if you weren’t
00:31:30:04 - 00:31:35:13
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
a geneticist, what else would you want to do? I remember our time, in Culzean, and,
00:31:35:13 - 00:31:37:06
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
you were flying kites with us!
00:31:37:06 - 00:31:39:02
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
Have you ever wanted to be a pilot?
00:31:39:02 - 00:31:46:11
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I did actually consider that! In fact, I did actually take a flying lesson once.
00:31:46:11 - 00:31:48:12
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
But I realised what a huge commitment
00:31:48:12 - 00:31:52:00
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
it was going to be to carry on with that, even just as a hobby.
00:31:52:00 - 00:32:02:13
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
so I decided to just stick to teaching people to fly a power kite with four strings, which is itself great fun, and also to enjoying occasional kiteboarding on the sea.
00:32:02:15 - 00:32:04:15
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
That's one of the most exciting sports,
00:32:04:15 - 00:32:09:11
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
but in my experience, probably one of the hardest to learn! And,
00:32:09:11 - 00:32:23:02
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I enjoy relaxing by playing the piano and the saxophone, though not at the same time! And I occasionally play sax in a band. But to be honest, I wish I was much, much better at doing that!
00:32:23:10 - 00:32:24:01
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
And
00:32:24:01 - 00:32:30:11
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
I suppose if I hadn't become a geneticist and if my degrees had been in physics,
00:32:30:11 - 00:32:36:21
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
maybe I would have wanted to be a particle physicist collaborating with CERN in Geneva or something like that!
00:32:38:03 - 00:32:39:12
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
Thank you!
00:32:39:12 - 00:32:41:23
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
that takes us to the end, then.
00:32:42:00 - 00:32:42:16
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
00:32:42:16 - 00:32:48:12
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
thank you very much for answering all the questions and all your inspiring stories.
00:32:48:12 - 00:32:51:16
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
I think everybody has something to get from that.
00:32:51:16 - 00:32:59:21
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
And I felt really inspired from what you have done so far and all of your involvement and achievements so far
00:32:59:21 - 00:33:02:13
Speaker 1 - Navodya Gamage
and good luck for everything you do!
00:33:02:13 - 00:33:07:05
Speaker 2 - Prof. Edward Tobias
Thank you!...and thank you for your wonderful and insightful questions!